May 16th 2012 08:15 am Instant ratification
a
I love talking about barbecue! We’ll do it one more day. The same argument that’s already begun here is one that is ignited in KC itself everytime the subject of barbecue is raised: which is better, Fiorella’s Jack Stack, Oklahoma Joe’s, Arthur Bryant’s, and so on. I must have heard at least half a dozen versions of the discussion in the two days I was there. I must say, I know what Bruce in Pensacola was getting at when he quoted Calvin Trillin, himself a Kansas City native: “You can’t get good barbecue served by a white man on a china plate.” Literally, that isn’t true. Although the atmosphere was a bit rarified to be taken seriously, the barbecue at Fiorella’s Jack Stack, where I ate Monday evening, was excellent. Come to think of it, though, it was a served by a pretty young woman, and I didn’t actually see the cook. Ultimately, I agree with Hurd, himself the owner of a barbecue joint; I’ve never tasted a form of barbecue I didn’t like. What kind of plates do you use, Hurd?
Posted by jimmyjohnson / Vintage A&J
46 Responses to “Instant ratification”
Symply Fargone on 16 May 2012 at 9:16 am #
I don’t care where I am, or who makes it….if it is smoked and sauced I am eating it. Bar B Que is the best thing to be done with tasty bits of meat….there I said it and I am Symply Fargone about it!
Joni in Western ND on 16 May 2012 at 9:18 am #
Jeez Janis if you are going to be a shrill shrew, I wouldn’t blame him for running off.
Mindy on 16 May 2012 at 9:31 am #
I’ve never seen Janis so insecure!
Nancy in Bucks County on 16 May 2012 at 9:37 am #
Lexington BBQ in North Carolina is one of my favorites. Allman’s in Fredericksburg, VA is also at the top of my list. Of course, one needs to finish your meal at Carl’s -best custard in VA. Pierce’s near Williamsburg is worth the trip. Sadly, Bbq in Pa is lacking. But we do a mean pork and sauerkraut!
Ptorq on 16 May 2012 at 9:39 am #
Janis mellowed out after she got her new haircut. She used to be like this more often.
Mark from Maine on 16 May 2012 at 9:46 am #
I’ll go with Hurd and JJ – I like all kinds of BBQ, and I will eat it if it’s put in front of me. Best BBQ in Maine, besides the kind I make here at home, is from Buck’s Naked Barbecue in Freeport. Have any of you New Englanders ever been? (It’s called naked because it’s cooked without sauce; you add whatever sauce you want from their six varieties on your plate. Yum!)
Bob, near Mark on 16 May 2012 at 9:57 am #
The first BBQ sandwich I ever had was at the Wagon Wheel Cafe on Pennsylvania Ave., near the corner of East 10th St., in Alamogordo, NM, in late 1963 or early ’64. I frequented their cafe after that, even though I had heard that they had occasional problems with the board of health.
They had iced coffee on the menu, but if you ordered it, you got a cup of hot coffee with an ice cube in it.
Neither the Wagon Wheel Cafe nor Pennsylvania Ave are still there. The cafe has closed, and the street has been renamed White Sands Blvd.
TruckerRon on 16 May 2012 at 10:25 am #
All I ask of a BBQ is that the meat be properly cooked (no food poisoning, please!) and that the sauce be spicy, not overly sweet. Pork, beef, and chicken are all good. I do like the idea of picking and adding the sauce afterwards.
As for cleanliness — a local TV news team took samples of ice from several restaurants to a lab last week. Seems our state just looks at ice machines for visual cleanliness and has no requirements for periodic cleaning or real testing of samples — no one passed. So, the next time the legislature meets I hope the rules & regs will be changed.
Steve from Royal Oak, MI on 16 May 2012 at 10:50 am #
I have watched shows on the Food Channel on BBQ and watching folks from different regions fight over which is best. I do not like heavily spiced food, so I am often careful whent I eat it.
One of the most interesting stories was how BBQ really got started with the slave community. Apparently they often received the parts of the animal that were not normally served, so they had to use their intelligence and imagination to make it taste better. Ribs, for example, were rarely eaten. Marianating, slow cooking and sauces were the keys to their success and we are all very grateful.
Dan in SWMo on 16 May 2012 at 11:06 am #
I’m neither a connoisseur nor a cogniscenti when it comes to barbecue. I just like good meat with good flavor at a good price, and many of the subtle differences between various restaurants are lost to me. I do like adding my own sauce, usually mixing a couple of them together to get my own blend. (I guess I do go in for some subtleties, after all!) One thing I don’t want is to spend a huge amount on the meal. Nothing gripes me more than a barbecue restaurant that thinks they can get away with asking upscale prices for downscale decor simply because the latter gives an authentic atmosphere to the place.
John in Virginia on 16 May 2012 at 11:25 am #
Mindy makes the best BBQ I’ve ever eaten.
(The preceding statement was provided by the “I Ain’t Totally Stupid” division of the John in Virginia Company.)
Blinky the Wonder Wombat on 16 May 2012 at 11:55 am #
I was first exposed to southern barbeque during first first job out of college. Carolina Barbeque was in a nondescript cement block building alongside a busy highway. It was only open three days a week because, as the barbeque connoisseurs informed me, you need to let a pit rest after cooking. Every Thursday morning during the drive to work we would see smoke coming out of the pit and we knew were would be eating that night.
The decor was sparse (picnic tables with plastic table covers), the menu fixed (barbeque, hush puppies, corn on the cob, baked beans, cracklings, and sweet tea), and the food was great, but perhaps the best attraction to this poor, single boy was the price: $3.00 for all you could eat. (Although towards the end of my sojourn in the area the prices was raised to $3.50, accompanied by lots of apologies from the owners.)
sandcastler on 16 May 2012 at 12:18 pm #
Still have sweet spot for red beans and rice; was introduced to this dish at Rum Boogie on Beale Street in Memphis. Had known bbq all my life, where I grew up we had a neighborhood pit. On Saturdays the men started and tended it while the women made up the sides.
Hurd in Bay Minette on 16 May 2012 at 2:15 pm #
My 2 cents.
We serve on black foam plates. We do not serve our meat sauced because I believe that each customer should be able to decide for them self which kind of sauce they want and how much. We have a sweet sauce and a Carolina sauce, both our own recipe, for customers to choose from and they can get as much or as little as they want. In my own personal opinion if a joint serves its meat already sauced it may have been in the cooler since last week and just heated up for that day. For example I know of a place that only cooks once a week but never runs out of anything. We cook meat fresh every day and on some days I make the wrong call and we run out of something. Leftovers are chopped up and used in other dishes most of the time.
To me, smoke is the primary taste that should present itself. We do rub our ribs but the butts just have the kiss of the smoke on them. For my own consumption I use very little, if any sauce. I want the flavor of the meat.
Currently we are experimenting with brisket. I just need to learn how to cook it consistently.
John in NY on 16 May 2012 at 2:53 pm #
Hurd rubs his ribs and kisses his butts. Can’t ask for more than that.
My first BBQ – legit BBQ – was at this hole in the wall place in the north of Paris that a friend had discovered and took us all too last night. It was run by two brothers (both literally and colloquially) from Louisiana. Now my dad had always barbequed. But what I learned that night was that he grilled. These guys barbequed.
And anyone who’s been will know this is saying something – Best dang meal I had in all my time in Paris. I’ve been in love with BBQ ever since although living up North I only get to hear of varying styles or tastes. I have been trying to pick up a thing or two on good slow cooking/smoking of meats and how to make a good rub or sauce. I hate to waste so have not gone anything further than slow cooking chicken quarters and giving them a lather of Kraft sauce – not bad really.
As to what I eat BBQ off of – I’ll eat it off of nearly anything. A strong paper plate and some wet wipes are good enough for me though.
John in NY on 16 May 2012 at 2:54 pm #
Ok it wasn’t last night it was nearly 20 years ago. Clearly I remember it as if it was (or wish it was) last night though.
Dennis Ewing on 16 May 2012 at 3:00 pm #
In Texas Q is not cooked with sauce. Some places get offended if you ask for sauce. I personally eat st this little hole in the wall off IH 35 here in town called Smokin Joes. If you eat the brisket you almost need a spoon. It falls apart so it is hard to eat with a fork. He has sausage made to his specs and it is to die for. One day I’m going to try pulled pork, but I can’t get past the great tasting brisket. His baby backs are a bit of heaven also. SAuce i can get anywhere. Good Q is another thing altogether.
Mary in Ohio on 16 May 2012 at 3:16 pm #
I know less about barbecue than I do about airports, but I am vicariously enjoying this discussion. Hurd, if I ever go south again (in the literal sense) I am strongly thinking of heading in your direction.
Neal in Bahstawn on 16 May 2012 at 3:20 pm #
1) Can anyone explain to me why “baby back ribs” command a premium price?
2) My formative experience with barbecue was circa 1958-1960 at the “Old South Barbecue Ranch” in Clewiston, FL. It was the kind of place that advertised up and down U.S. 27. I would badger anyone in the front seat into stopping. It left no memory.
3) My formative experience with decent barbecue was Sonny’s Fat Boy Barbecue, located out on the Waldo Road in Gainesville, Florida. You could smell it smoking from at least a mile away. During my four years at the U of F, I ate there anytime I could scrape together two dollars. It left me with a lasting appreciation for BBQ and, especially, for a great pulled pork sandwich. Decades later, I was in Miami and found that Sonny’s (now cleaved of the ‘Fat Boy’ appendange) had gone the franchise route. I discovered that barbecue does not ‘franchise’.
Mindy on 16 May 2012 at 3:28 pm #
Hurd, you’re one of the few people in the food business I know of who actually cooks for the day’s needs and not next week’s as well! I missed it, where’s Bay Minette? We may come to visit. Especially since I can choose my own sauce to fit my mood! And no smart comments from either John or sandcastler [with a small "S"]!
Jim in Daphne on 16 May 2012 at 3:31 pm #
The Happy Pig in downtown Pensacola has brisket that is as good as anything outside Texas. Dreamland for ribs although when I was in school at Alabama in the the early 70′s we went to Archibald’s. I need to drive up the road and try Hurd’s BBQ!!
sandcastler on 16 May 2012 at 3:42 pm #
http://www.urbanspoon.com/m/r/223/1609923
Mindy and Mary, the above is the link to Hurd’s place.
Mindy, how you get sauced is your own business, just let John drive you home.
Ruth Anne in Winter Park on 16 May 2012 at 4:16 pm #
I’m with those who treat sauce as a condiment rather than a major ingredient. I enjoy checking out regional variations of barbecue as much as I do listening to regional accents.
Has anybody else ever had barbecued mutton? It’s a favorite in the Owensboro, KY, area. One of my husband’s buddies had his brother ship him some from his favorite joint (maybe the Moonlite BBQ, one of the best known) and he shared some with us. It was good. If I were in Owensboro and could get it at the source, I would have it again, but I’m not sure I would make a special trip just for that.
Our favorite local spot closed – not sure if the real reason was that Uncle Jones wanted to retire or that he gave up fighting with the health department. The food was good and never gave me any problems. And I’m sure my kitchen wouldn’t pass inspection either.
Now where do I want to go for dinner?
Bob, near Mark on 16 May 2012 at 4:37 pm #
Just click on Hurd’s name (Hurd in Bay Minette) in his posts. That will take you to his website. (Names in green instead of black in posts are links to the poster’s website.)
For the click-impaired
, the address of Hurd’s restaurant is
Brothers Barbeque?
712 D’Olive Street
Bay Minette, AL 36507
Mark in TTown on 16 May 2012 at 4:47 pm #
If it’s well-cooked and smoked, I’m on it!. I do prefer to add my own sauce and I prefer pulled to sliced or chopped. Had too many bits of bone in the chopped. In Tuscaloosa area good sources are : The Pottery Grill, Full Moon Barbequeue, Dreamland and Archibalds. In Birmingham I am no longer so familiar with what is available, but Full Moon again, Jim and Nick’s I know to be good, Golden Rule is not what it used to be. I expect Bob Sykes should be very good too, although I haven’t eaten there in years.
David in Austin on 16 May 2012 at 5:00 pm #
Hurd,
In my experience, TX-style beef brisket is best done with a whole packers trim brisket. A variety of dry rubs can be used, but at a minimum, salt, pepper, garlic powder and onion powder. Trim the excess fat (or the dry rub is seasoning the fat, not the meat) coat liberally with dry rub and refrigerate for 24-48 hours. Smoke with oak, mesquite, pecan, or hickory (varies…oak is most common in TX, mesquite is a bit stronger. The others are options). The key is low temperature (225 or so) with smoke for at least half the cooking time. I normally cook the plate end of the brisket for about 10 hours. The fatty butt portion gets at least 12 hours. Splitting the brisket helps to keep from getting the lean plate end too dry, and ensures the butt end is tender (not chewy). I am not a true aficionado– I use a gas burner for even heat, wood chunks rather than logs, and a water pan for moisture and heat balance, too.
You can brand the brisket as you own by adjusting the dry rub mix. Some people add dry chipotle or other chilies and mixing other seasonings to taste. The smoke is still the real key ingredient. Brisket is served dry, with sauces available as preferred.
I don’t do briskets commercially, but do smoke up a batch pretty often. I have mixed Pork and Brisket in the smoker with hickory with good results. I don’t like pork with oak or mesquite as well, so if I’m using those woods the smoker is full-up with beef.
The bits of left-over burnt ends are REALLY good chopped and mixed with pinto beans! Of course, some people also prefer the burnt ends for sandwiches, too.
Hurd in Bay Minette, Al on 16 May 2012 at 5:36 pm #
Hey David. Thanks for the advice. We just got a couple of brisket to play with this weekend. I will put your advice to good use.
For all you other kind people we would love to feed you. Bay Minette is about 40 miles northeast of Mobile, Al about 7 miles off I65. Thanks Bob for posting the address.
We have a facebook group under Brothers BBQ and our web site is http://www.followyoursnout.com. You can also find us on Urban Spoon.
Whenever you can please come on by. Just tell the person that takes your order that Arlo sent you.
John: Nothing is too good for our customers.
Rick in Shermantown, Ohio on 16 May 2012 at 5:47 pm #
Perhaps Janis is jealous because she knows that most men are not monogamous by choice.
(Well, that should start a firestorm.)
Bob, near Mark on 16 May 2012 at 7:09 pm #
Hurd,
My daughter used to live in Enterprise, AL, 125 miles or so from you. She still owns the house there, but is living in Germany right now. I haven’t been in Alabama since you opened Brothers BBQ, but if my daughter moves back there, I’ll have to take a ride.
Mark in TTown on 16 May 2012 at 7:28 pm #
My wife came up with an idea early in our marriage. Whenever I saw a woman I found attractive, I was to kiss my wife and let her know who I was looking at. Worked for both of us, as she got extra affection and I wasn’t penalized for being married but not dead. Oddly, though, since we split I find I am not really looking anymore. Sounds like the retro strip with Arlo commenting on all the things he used to enjoy but no longer does.
Mindy on 16 May 2012 at 7:58 pm #
Rick? Men are monogamous of necessity. Break out your asbestos undies…
sandcastler on 16 May 2012 at 8:04 pm #
Mindy, undies lead to chaffing
Jack in Minnesota on 16 May 2012 at 8:20 pm #
David, thanks for the brisket tips. I’m still working on it, but still don’t get quite the results I’m looking for. The smoke and seasoning are good, but there’s something else. We stopped at a place in St. Louis and I had the brisket sandwich there. The brisket was so tender that when you bite into it, you can’t tell where the bread ended and the brisket started. That’s what I’m looking for. The place we stopped at does their beans in the pit under the brisket. Wow. They also do a burnt ends sandwich.
Hurd, my son is stationed at Maxwell AFB in Montgomery (he lives in Prattville). The next time we visit him, we’ll head on down to Bay Minette and see how your experiments have turned out.
Mindy on 16 May 2012 at 8:49 pm #
What undies?
emeritus Minnesota biologist on 16 May 2012 at 9:30 pm #
Some are/were very monogamous and don’t regret it a bit.
Mark in TTown on 16 May 2012 at 10:32 pm #
EMB: that’s right. How can you give your best to someone if you aren’t willing to give them your undivided attention?
David in Austin on 16 May 2012 at 10:54 pm #
Jack in Minn,
Time is the critical issue. If the brisket is not fully cooked it will be chewy. The long slow cooking breaks down all the connective tissue and fat. If it is cold or windy when you are smoking, you may have to increase the cooking time. The internal temperature of the meat should hold at 185 or so for at least a couple of hours to reach the proper state of doneness.
I use an extra long toothpick to test. It should slide in like you are pressing on warm butter. Wrap in foil when done, and let it rest for an hour or so before slicing. Some people hold the foil wrapped brisket wrapped in towels in an ice-chest. When you slice the plate end, there should be a smoke ring of red meat from a quarter to a half-inch.
Good luck!
EMB: I’d agree, as does my wife of 29 years. I hope to make a substantial number of additional years with her, too.
curmudgeonly ex-professor on 16 May 2012 at 10:59 pm #
For my much-better half, my “undivided” attentions also get “added” and “multiplied”.
TruckerRon on 17 May 2012 at 12:26 am #
I wonder why the one sparkly, clean, fancy BBQ shop I went to in B’ham served up a meal that made me violently ill a few hours later while all the hole-in-the-wall places have always served great-tasting and safe-to-eat meals?
Jerry in Fl on 17 May 2012 at 12:35 am #
I’m going to talk about a sightly different kind of place, the Blue Dot in Pensacola. Now this place has no parking lot and no sign out front. It’s also in an area that will most likely make some folks a bit nervous. They have no waitresses and no menu. As a mater of fact they have two employees, one fulltime cook and one guy who cooks, brings out the burgers and takes your money. Here’s how it works. When you walk in the front door you find a space to stand along a u-shaped bar. Eventually a guy will come through the door to the grill. You may catch a glimpse of a big black grill and fire. The guy will have his hands full of brown paper bags and he will know who gets which bag. If the customer wants a softdrink you tell him when he hands you your bag. As he hands out the bags he tells the customer how much they owe. When he has collected all of the money he goes to the register , then walks back around handing out the change. Now everyone has left except those who have not ordered. He walks back along the bar and all you tell him is how many you want. He writes nothing down but when he has taken everyone’s order he disappears into the back until he reappears again with brown paper bags. Consider yourself a local if you know where the Blue Dot is or you work with someone who will driive there and get burgers for the office. The burgers are the very best. There have been front page newspaper articles trying to guess their recipe. The most common guess is that some portion of the meat s actually ground pork, but no one knows and no one is talking. You can joke about fried green tomatos, but you may see the mayor and some of the richest and most powerful in town at the Blue Dot.
hc on 17 May 2012 at 6:43 am #
Trucker Ron … ice (machines) – I always ask for water without ice … now I know why!
Jean from Dahlonega Ga aka Trapper Jean on 17 May 2012 at 8:19 am #
Hurd, there’s a little place here in Dahlonega called Smokin’ Gold that has the absolute best smoked brisket I’ve ever eaten. I don’t know what he puts in his rub but he smokes everything in Big Green Eggs. To be honest I’m partial to pig for barbeque, and never much cared for barbequed beef until that first meal at Smokin’ Gold.
Now as to sauces, I don’t care for the mustard based ones. My tastes may be a bit plebeian here, but my favorite is KC Masterpiece.
Symply Fargone on 17 May 2012 at 8:49 am #
Mindy, Mindy, Mindy….You planning on war? Going Commando?Symply Fargone, in my mind……some day you’ll have to let us in on the “rest of the story”(credits to Paul Harvey)
MWL on 17 May 2012 at 11:06 am #
+1 to John NY for the description of Hurd’s.
+1 to Hurd! Next time we trip over to AL we will look you up!
+1 to EMD. Monogamy = Monotony only in jokes.
And I am still as promised years ago, My Wifes Lover.
Gregory on 17 May 2012 at 1:13 pm #
In college I lived across the street from Byron’s in Auburn Alabama. That was a good year.
Mary in Ohio on 17 May 2012 at 3:26 pm #
Thank you sandcastler.
Mindy, I think anything you are apt to post leads to chaffing. Chafing, maybe or maybe not!